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	<title>Comments on: Untangling Ethics: A framework for Anthropology</title>
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	<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/</link>
	<description>Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Os prémios para os melhores posts em blogs de antropologia em 2008 &#171; Comunidade Imaginada</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-3506</link>
		<dc:creator>Os prémios para os melhores posts em blogs de antropologia em 2008 &#171; Comunidade Imaginada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-3506</guid>
		<description>[...] Ethical Debate Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology (In [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ethical Debate Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology (In [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The &#8220;Best of Anthro 2008&#8243; Prizes &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-3340</link>
		<dc:creator>The &#8220;Best of Anthro 2008&#8243; Prizes &#171; Neuroanthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 00:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-3340</guid>
		<description>[...] Ethical Debate Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology (In [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ethical Debate Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology (In [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Round Up of the Best of Anthro 2008 &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-3339</link>
		<dc:creator>Round Up of the Best of Anthro 2008 &#171; Neuroanthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-3339</guid>
		<description>[...] Harmonium Best: Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology Ethics in application, the Human Terrain System, and how we draw the lines. Some very good debate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Harmonium Best: Untangling Ethics: A framework for anthropology Ethics in application, the Human Terrain System, and how we draw the lines. Some very good debate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-2033</guid>
		<description>The problem with defining things on limited terms - i.e. "Wars of aggression" and "Crimes against humanity", is that you are then forced to call a doctor a "butcher" and "murderer of flesh" for operating on a cancerous tumor. (And doesn't cancerous cells have rights, equal to all other cells?) 

I think the words being used by Max are much more subjective and politically loaded than he states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with defining things on limited terms - i.e. &#8220;Wars of aggression&#8221; and &#8220;Crimes against humanity&#8221;, is that you are then forced to call a doctor a &#8220;butcher&#8221; and &#8220;murderer of flesh&#8221; for operating on a cancerous tumor. (And doesn&#8217;t cancerous cells have rights, equal to all other cells?) </p>
<p>I think the words being used by Max are much more subjective and politically loaded than he states.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Some thoughts on why ethics are important In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-1251</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Some thoughts on why ethics are important In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-1251</guid>
		<description>[...] model of ethics (aka &#8220;morality&#8221;).  I&#8217;ve noted this in a several posts (here and here), and expressed concern over it, in its various forms, in others (here and here).  Given [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] model of ethics (aka &#8220;morality&#8221;).  I&#8217;ve noted this in a several posts (here and here), and expressed concern over it, in its various forms, in others (here and here).  Given [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Untangling ethics 2: lying and &#8220;Truth&#8221; In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Untangling ethics 2: lying and &#8220;Truth&#8221; In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-754</guid>
		<description>[...] I quoted this case study earlier, I noted that In other words, she lied to a foreign government’s officials, helped to subvert [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I quoted this case study earlier, I noted that In other words, she lied to a foreign government’s officials, helped to subvert [...]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-283</guid>
		<description>Hi Max,

Oh, I certainly agree with you about how the numbers game played out in the US, say 1945 - 1965 or so.  In this case, the US was certainly behind what was happening in Europe, which lost a lot of its fascination with social engineering after World War I and certainly by the end of World War II.

One thing I find absolutely fascinating in the variants of Lysenkoism that crept into both the US and Soviet conceptualizations of "science".  I think that one of the effects of using atomic weapons to end the war in the Pacific theatre led to a co-evolution of paranoia on the one hand and "science as religion" (i.e. threat containment) on the other as part of the Cold War.

As a pseudo-religion, "science" had, to my mind, been co-opted into the dominant ideologies as almost a sacred containment device.  This does seem to start to break down in the 1960's, to some extent, in the West, but not until the late 1980's in the ex-Soviet Empire.

I was watching a show last night on the Discovery channel on how Star Trek (or Wm. Shatner) changed the world (http://www.discoverychannel.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=2827).
One of the interesting points made in that was that Gene Roddenberry's "vision" of the future was highly optimistic as far as the role of science and technology was concerned; an optimism that the show reflected and, in turn, acted as a catalyst to actually develop the technology.  Towards the end of the show, Shatner talks about the adoption of the "darker" side of technology into the show and how, as they did it, it led to less and less viewers.  I think that this speaks to a desire on the part of people to *want* to believe that science will make things better.

I mention this because I think that science has been loosing its Cold War, quasi-religious status and is getting popularized; in effect, moving back into the realm where at least some of it is accessible by the general population - a situation somewhat analogous to the mid-19th century (then again, I tend to view time in spiral terms ).

On you second point, I suspect you are right, but with a really large caveat.  As far as the Minerva research is concerned, I actually doubt that you will see much of anything that could be classified as classic fieldwork.  My gut guess is that most of the proposals will involve secondary research rather than primary research.  Added on to that, the US military has some very strict protocols on research involving human subjects, one of the requirements of which is that any such research taking place in a foreign country requires the equivalent of IRB approval from that country.

Will that have any real effect on how Canadian, British and Australian Anthropologists are perceived?  Probably not since most people won't bother looking into the ethics requirements since it doesn't suit their political agendas.  I certainly imagine that AQ will not hesitate to brand all foreign researchers as spies!

What I see happening increasingly is that all researchers, Anthropologists or not, will be required to take some type of "loyalty test" by the groups they wish to study.  The trend for this was set, in a way, back in the 1920' and 30's with the development of Boasian advocacy Anthropology, and I expect that it will be accelerated somewhat as a result of the Minerva discussions.  Personally, I don't think that bodes well for Anthropology as a science .  Then again, as you know, that is my bias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Max,</p>
<p>Oh, I certainly agree with you about how the numbers game played out in the US, say 1945 - 1965 or so.  In this case, the US was certainly behind what was happening in Europe, which lost a lot of its fascination with social engineering after World War I and certainly by the end of World War II.</p>
<p>One thing I find absolutely fascinating in the variants of Lysenkoism that crept into both the US and Soviet conceptualizations of &#8220;science&#8221;.  I think that one of the effects of using atomic weapons to end the war in the Pacific theatre led to a co-evolution of paranoia on the one hand and &#8220;science as religion&#8221; (i.e. threat containment) on the other as part of the Cold War.</p>
<p>As a pseudo-religion, &#8220;science&#8221; had, to my mind, been co-opted into the dominant ideologies as almost a sacred containment device.  This does seem to start to break down in the 1960&#8217;s, to some extent, in the West, but not until the late 1980&#8217;s in the ex-Soviet Empire.</p>
<p>I was watching a show last night on the Discovery channel on how Star Trek (or Wm. Shatner) changed the world (http://www.discoverychannel.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=2827).<br />
One of the interesting points made in that was that Gene Roddenberry&#8217;s &#8220;vision&#8221; of the future was highly optimistic as far as the role of science and technology was concerned; an optimism that the show reflected and, in turn, acted as a catalyst to actually develop the technology.  Towards the end of the show, Shatner talks about the adoption of the &#8220;darker&#8221; side of technology into the show and how, as they did it, it led to less and less viewers.  I think that this speaks to a desire on the part of people to *want* to believe that science will make things better.</p>
<p>I mention this because I think that science has been loosing its Cold War, quasi-religious status and is getting popularized; in effect, moving back into the realm where at least some of it is accessible by the general population - a situation somewhat analogous to the mid-19th century (then again, I tend to view time in spiral terms ).</p>
<p>On you second point, I suspect you are right, but with a really large caveat.  As far as the Minerva research is concerned, I actually doubt that you will see much of anything that could be classified as classic fieldwork.  My gut guess is that most of the proposals will involve secondary research rather than primary research.  Added on to that, the US military has some very strict protocols on research involving human subjects, one of the requirements of which is that any such research taking place in a foreign country requires the equivalent of IRB approval from that country.</p>
<p>Will that have any real effect on how Canadian, British and Australian Anthropologists are perceived?  Probably not since most people won&#8217;t bother looking into the ethics requirements since it doesn&#8217;t suit their political agendas.  I certainly imagine that AQ will not hesitate to brand all foreign researchers as spies!</p>
<p>What I see happening increasingly is that all researchers, Anthropologists or not, will be required to take some type of &#8220;loyalty test&#8221; by the groups they wish to study.  The trend for this was set, in a way, back in the 1920&#8242; and 30&#8217;s with the development of Boasian advocacy Anthropology, and I expect that it will be accelerated somewhat as a result of the Minerva discussions.  Personally, I don&#8217;t think that bodes well for Anthropology as a science .  Then again, as you know, that is my bias.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximilian Forte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-282</guid>
		<description>Yes, that's right, but as a dominant approach to conceptualizing social science, such ideas gained and retained greater currency in the U.S. than in Europe, especially positivism and the fascination with social realities converted into numbers. As long as one was seen to be number crunching, the research was deemed safe and "non-ideological", which is a euphemistic way of saying, "not critical of the dominant ideology."

While I tend not to weep much for what American anthropology is doing to itself in its compromises with the military -- and here proponents have factored out of their discussions reactions from prospective local hosts abroad who do and will lock them out (there seems to be an assumption that they will automatically get to do Minerva research wherever they go, "no problem") -- and I could say that Canadian anthropology will be spared harsh international judgments, I am skeptical. I think that many people will not draw distinctions between a visitor who is an anthropologist from the U.S., U.K. or Canada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s right, but as a dominant approach to conceptualizing social science, such ideas gained and retained greater currency in the U.S. than in Europe, especially positivism and the fascination with social realities converted into numbers. As long as one was seen to be number crunching, the research was deemed safe and &#8220;non-ideological&#8221;, which is a euphemistic way of saying, &#8220;not critical of the dominant ideology.&#8221;</p>
<p>While I tend not to weep much for what American anthropology is doing to itself in its compromises with the military &#8212; and here proponents have factored out of their discussions reactions from prospective local hosts abroad who do and will lock them out (there seems to be an assumption that they will automatically get to do Minerva research wherever they go, &#8220;no problem&#8221;) &#8212; and I could say that Canadian anthropology will be spared harsh international judgments, I am skeptical. I think that many people will not draw distinctions between a visitor who is an anthropologist from the U.S., U.K. or Canada.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-277</guid>
		<description>Hi Max,

Just a quick comment on one thing you mentioned - "The desire for “neutral” and “objective” analysis that betrays no political agenda or human emotion, is a concern that is distinctly American, and one that flourished in the context of the Cold War."

Actually, I would suggest that it goes back to Francis Bacon and was formalized with Descartes.  If you look at late 18th - late 19th / early 20th century social theory, say Turgot to Spencer, there is a distinct objectification of "Nature" and a valorization of the objectification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Max,</p>
<p>Just a quick comment on one thing you mentioned - &#8220;The desire for “neutral” and “objective” analysis that betrays no political agenda or human emotion, is a concern that is distinctly American, and one that flourished in the context of the Cold War.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, I would suggest that it goes back to Francis Bacon and was formalized with Descartes.  If you look at late 18th - late 19th / early 20th century social theory, say Turgot to Spencer, there is a distinct objectification of &#8220;Nature&#8221; and a valorization of the objectification.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/07/14/untangling-ethics-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximilian Forte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=42#comment-275</guid>
		<description>I should have made a cross-cultural observation here. The desire for "neutral" and "objective" analysis that betrays no political agenda or human emotion, is a concern that is distinctly American, and one that flourished in the context of the Cold War. Europe, and most of the rest of the world, has grown up long ago, and one expects that academics and journalists will write politically -- where politics is a dirty word only for tyrants who want submissive subjects who lack even conceptual tools for opposing tyranny, such as a political belief. The idea is if you do not want a Marxist perspective, then you do not buy Newspaper X. What they don't do is cry and complain that Newspaper X dares to have a point of view, and journalists who are in fact human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have made a cross-cultural observation here. The desire for &#8220;neutral&#8221; and &#8220;objective&#8221; analysis that betrays no political agenda or human emotion, is a concern that is distinctly American, and one that flourished in the context of the Cold War. Europe, and most of the rest of the world, has grown up long ago, and one expects that academics and journalists will write politically &#8212; where politics is a dirty word only for tyrants who want submissive subjects who lack even conceptual tools for opposing tyranny, such as a political belief. The idea is if you do not want a Marxist perspective, then you do not buy Newspaper X. What they don&#8217;t do is cry and complain that Newspaper X dares to have a point of view, and journalists who are in fact human.</p>
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