Comments on: Notes towards a theory of asymmetric conflict, part 2 http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/ Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:34:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: admin http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/#comment-421 admin Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:28:02 +0000 http://marctyrrell.com/?p=62#comment-421 Jan, that's an excellent point and you are quite right about it. There was clearly an "informational battlespace" in pre-newspaper / publishing cultures (the use of monumental architecture as a propaganda tool also comes to mind). It may be worthwhile expanding on the development of various infospaces in relation to propaganda genres. I chose to focus on newspapers (broadsheets, etc.) since, to my mind, they marked a real departure from oral traditions. Let me think on it for a bit and get back to you. Jan, that’s an excellent point and you are quite right about it. There was clearly an “informational battlespace” in pre-newspaper / publishing cultures (the use of monumental architecture as a propaganda tool also comes to mind). It may be worthwhile expanding on the development of various infospaces in relation to propaganda genres. I chose to focus on newspapers (broadsheets, etc.) since, to my mind, they marked a real departure from oral traditions. Let me think on it for a bit and get back to you.

]]> By: Jan F http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/#comment-417 Jan F Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:57:01 +0000 http://marctyrrell.com/?p=62#comment-417 I like the notion of the non-physical battlespaces but I would suggest that the manipulation of perceptions in warfare precedes the emergence of newspapers. Recall the Mongols' practice when punishing a village for resistance: they left a few people alive who they would let go to spread word to the next villages that resistance is futile. Crassus' crucifixion of Spartacus' defeated slaves along the Appian Way had a similar purpose. So did the great rock carvings of Assyrian kings flaying their enemies. In all cases, there was an understanding that perceptions were part of the battlespace and needed to be addressed as part of the conflict. Both the Zealots and the Assassins liked to cut down their (symbolic?) enemies in the public market for maximum psychological impact. So I am not sure that the perceptual battlefield emerged with newspapers and telegraphs - it is just that these media accelerated and extended the ability to influence perceptions. I like the notion of the non-physical battlespaces but I would suggest that the manipulation of perceptions in warfare precedes the emergence of newspapers. Recall the Mongols’ practice when punishing a village for resistance: they left a few people alive who they would let go to spread word to the next villages that resistance is futile. Crassus’ crucifixion of Spartacus’ defeated slaves along the Appian Way had a similar purpose. So did the great rock carvings of Assyrian kings flaying their enemies. In all cases, there was an understanding that perceptions were part of the battlespace and needed to be addressed as part of the conflict. Both the Zealots and the Assassins liked to cut down their (symbolic?) enemies in the public market for maximum psychological impact. So I am not sure that the perceptual battlefield emerged with newspapers and telegraphs - it is just that these media accelerated and extended the ability to influence perceptions.

]]> By: MountainRunner http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/#comment-370 MountainRunner Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:48:29 +0000 http://marctyrrell.com/?p=62#comment-370 Marc, Great depth. I agree that Baud's categories are problematic. It seems he ignores the role of the "info space" in the "human space." I understand the need to delineate, but still... I like the eco-system model, as Michael raised, to denote the complex interplay of seen (potentially known) and unseen (potentially unknown) forces. On to part III... Marc,
Great depth. I agree that Baud’s categories are problematic. It seems he ignores the role of the “info space” in the “human space.” I understand the need to delineate, but still…

I like the eco-system model, as Michael raised, to denote the complex interplay of seen (potentially known) and unseen (potentially unknown) forces.

On to part III…

]]> By: admin http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/#comment-348 admin Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:00:04 +0000 http://marctyrrell.com/?p=62#comment-348 Hi Mike, Thanks. I think that both the ecological approach, as you put it and the longue duree are mutually reinforcing and both are necessary. While I see the phenomenon of Asymmetric warfare as "non-linear", that doesn't, necessarily, mean "chaotic" in the normal sense of the term - there are structures that channel the flow of the competition. If I had to use mathematics, I would probably use catastrophe theory rather than chaos theory, and combine that with fuzzy set topology. Then again, my math skills would have to improve a lot to do that . Hi Mike,

Thanks. I think that both the ecological approach, as you put it and the longue duree are mutually reinforcing and both are necessary. While I see the phenomenon of Asymmetric warfare as “non-linear”, that doesn’t, necessarily, mean “chaotic” in the normal sense of the term - there are structures that channel the flow of the competition. If I had to use mathematics, I would probably use catastrophe theory rather than chaos theory, and combine that with fuzzy set topology. Then again, my math skills would have to improve a lot to do that .

]]> By: Michael A. Innes http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/14/notes-towards-a-theory-of-asymmetric-conflict-part-2/#comment-346 Michael A. Innes Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:01:25 +0000 http://marctyrrell.com/?p=62#comment-346 Marc, I really enjoyed Pt2 - it articulates the the complexities of the subject quite nicely. I especially like the longue duree contextualization of "new" phenomena and developments. The ecological approach to multidimensional "workspace" feels like an interesting antidote to linear/non-linear battlespace dichotomies. Is that what you're aiming for? Marc, I really enjoyed Pt2 - it articulates the the complexities of the subject quite nicely. I especially like the longue duree contextualization of “new” phenomena and developments. The ecological approach to multidimensional “workspace” feels like an interesting antidote to linear/non-linear battlespace dichotomies. Is that what you’re aiming for?

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