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	<title>Comments on: The Night Battles in the 21st century</title>
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	<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/</link>
	<description>Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2371</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2371</guid>
		<description>Hi Zenpundit,

Thanks, Mark.  It was one of the more &quot;illuminating&quot; comments, wasn&#039;t it ? Still, I&#039;m certainly glad he made it since it was a really good illustration of the irrationality inherent in the process (esp. that last paragraph!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Zenpundit,</p>
<p>Thanks, Mark.  It was one of the more &#8220;illuminating&#8221; comments, wasn&#8217;t it ? Still, I&#8217;m certainly glad he made it since it was a really good illustration of the irrationality inherent in the process (esp. that last paragraph!).</p>
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		<title>By: zenpundit</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>zenpundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2347</guid>
		<description>Dr. Marc,

Perhaps your greatest post - though the robotic ideologue in the first comment ( I will guess an Anthro grad student or untenured academic with an affinity for Pilgrim psuedonyms) was icing on the cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Marc,</p>
<p>Perhaps your greatest post &#8211; though the robotic ideologue in the first comment ( I will guess an Anthro grad student or untenured academic with an affinity for Pilgrim psuedonyms) was icing on the cake.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Education, training and ethics In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2155</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Education, training and ethics In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2155</guid>
		<description>[...] open and examine it, something that had to wait until Drew&#8217;s recent comment / question on my Night Battles post.  In it, Drew notes that But what do we do with a culture which embraces warfare without [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] open and examine it, something that had to wait until Drew&#8217;s recent comment / question on my Night Battles post.  In it, Drew notes that But what do we do with a culture which embraces warfare without [...]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2125</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2125</guid>
		<description>Hi Drew,

Honestly, I don&#039;t know.  Personally, I loved Musashi&#039;s book.  I also like the Iliad, the Mahabharata and Beowulf, have the start of a good sword collection, and learned how to use them when I was 10.  I don&#039;t think I suffer from &quot;gun envy&quot; .  Then again, I got training on them young (11 if I remember correctly).

One of the things that Musashi does is to place &quot;violence&quot; within a larger, spiritual context - at least, that&#039;s my read on him.  I certainly wouldn&#039;t think that one should condemn a culture merely because it practices warfare, although I would condemn cultures that practice warfare &quot;uncaringly&quot; (a poor word, but the best I can come up with right now for what I am trying to get at).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Drew,</p>
<p>Honestly, I don&#8217;t know.  Personally, I loved Musashi&#8217;s book.  I also like the Iliad, the Mahabharata and Beowulf, have the start of a good sword collection, and learned how to use them when I was 10.  I don&#8217;t think I suffer from &#8220;gun envy&#8221; .  Then again, I got training on them young (11 if I remember correctly).</p>
<p>One of the things that Musashi does is to place &#8220;violence&#8221; within a larger, spiritual context &#8211; at least, that&#8217;s my read on him.  I certainly wouldn&#8217;t think that one should condemn a culture merely because it practices warfare, although I would condemn cultures that practice warfare &#8220;uncaringly&#8221; (a poor word, but the best I can come up with right now for what I am trying to get at).</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2124</guid>
		<description>Marc,

But what do we do with a culture which embraces warfare without ascribing &quot;evilness&quot; to it?

I just finished reading Musashi&#039;s &quot;The Five Rings&quot; and was struck by the fundamental &quot;goodness&quot; he and his culture ascribes to warriors, war and fighting.  

Wouldn&#039;t an anthropologist be required to condemn a culture in that case?

Personally, I like J.M.G Van der Dennen&#039;s comment about Anthropologists hating warriors because they get all the girls.... ;^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc,</p>
<p>But what do we do with a culture which embraces warfare without ascribing &#8220;evilness&#8221; to it?</p>
<p>I just finished reading Musashi&#8217;s &#8220;The Five Rings&#8221; and was struck by the fundamental &#8220;goodness&#8221; he and his culture ascribes to warriors, war and fighting.  </p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t an anthropologist be required to condemn a culture in that case?</p>
<p>Personally, I like J.M.G Van der Dennen&#8217;s comment about Anthropologists hating warriors because they get all the girls&#8230;. ;^)</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2041</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2041</guid>
		<description>Hi Drew,

I&#039;d certainly agree that academic Anthropology is pre-disposed to that view, at least since the 1960&#039;s or so.  My gut guess, and I haven&#039;t done any research on it, is that there is a sub-conscious recognition that the &quot;military&quot; (actually, perceptions of the military) is diametrically opposed to many of the axiomatic assumptions and values of academic Anthropology.

I don&#039;t think that he majority of Anthropologists would believe that the military is inherently &quot;evil&quot;, but I suspect that the military is viewed as being required to commit &quot;evil&quot; and that this has a &quot;polluting&quot; effect (all the stuff about ritual pollution and impurity that Mary Douglas talks about).  OTOH, &quot;war&quot; tends to be viewed as &quot;evil&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Drew,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d certainly agree that academic Anthropology is pre-disposed to that view, at least since the 1960&#8242;s or so.  My gut guess, and I haven&#8217;t done any research on it, is that there is a sub-conscious recognition that the &#8220;military&#8221; (actually, perceptions of the military) is diametrically opposed to many of the axiomatic assumptions and values of academic Anthropology.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that he majority of Anthropologists would believe that the military is inherently &#8220;evil&#8221;, but I suspect that the military is viewed as being required to commit &#8220;evil&#8221; and that this has a &#8220;polluting&#8221; effect (all the stuff about ritual pollution and impurity that Mary Douglas talks about).  OTOH, &#8220;war&#8221; tends to be viewed as &#8220;evil&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-2040</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-2040</guid>
		<description>What I find truly ironic, is that corporate Anthropology, which apparently operates on a fundamental basis of relativity vis-a-vis culture, has made a judgement that the military culture (and war)is inherently evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find truly ironic, is that corporate Anthropology, which apparently operates on a fundamental basis of relativity vis-a-vis culture, has made a judgement that the military culture (and war)is inherently evil.</p>
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		<title>By: BRand</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1072</link>
		<dc:creator>BRand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-1072</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not the &quot;“classic” formulation of studying witchcraft&quot; it&#039;s the classic formulation of that old rationality question.  (witches is just a subset)  Anyway, in the old way of saying it: don&#039;t witch hunts usually &quot;function&quot; to establish the authority of witchhunters (elders, whoever) and represent communal harmony/morality by representing its opposite? 

The one-group-over-another kind of witchhunt IS the &quot;normal meaning of political hyperbole&quot;--if McFate is a witch it&#039;s because she&#039;s an insider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not the &#8220;“classic” formulation of studying witchcraft&#8221; it&#8217;s the classic formulation of that old rationality question.  (witches is just a subset)  Anyway, in the old way of saying it: don&#8217;t witch hunts usually &#8220;function&#8221; to establish the authority of witchhunters (elders, whoever) and represent communal harmony/morality by representing its opposite? </p>
<p>The one-group-over-another kind of witchhunt IS the &#8220;normal meaning of political hyperbole&#8221;&#8211;if McFate is a witch it&#8217;s because she&#8217;s an insider.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Untangling ethics 2: lying and &#8220;Truth&#8221; In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Untangling ethics 2: lying and &#8220;Truth&#8221; In Harmonium: Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-987</guid>
		<description>[...] we adopted this terminology, then the actions of the HTS would be viewed as &#8220;heresy&#8221; by some, the act of &#8220;spying&#8221; would be &#8220;apostacy&#8221;, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we adopted this terminology, then the actions of the HTS would be viewed as &#8220;heresy&#8221; by some, the act of &#8220;spying&#8221; would be &#8220;apostacy&#8221;, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/08/19/the-night-battles-in-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=64#comment-420</guid>
		<description>John,

Just a couple of points.  First, I am a Canadian living in Canada and President Bush is definitely not &quot;my leader&quot; (that&#039;s the Queen). Second, the post itself had nothing to do with whether or not I support either the war in Iraq or Afghanistan; it had to do with a social process - witch hunts - and how that process is playing out right now.

Let me return to your first question about the difference between a &quot;witch&quot; and a &quot;criminal&quot; since it is a really good one and gets to the heart about why witch hunts are so irrational. Most cultures have a split between the &quot;sacred&quot; and the &quot;profane&quot; (cf Durkheim or Mary Douglas).  As a general category, &quot;criminals&quot; commit actions that are in the &quot;profane&quot; (or &quot;secular&quot;) realm, while &quot;witches&quot; commit actions that are in the &quot;sacred&quot; realm.

Now, that split can be a bit tricky when you aren&#039;t dealing with a religion, so the easiest way to look at it would be to ask &quot;what does this group hold as their core beliefs&quot; and treat those core beliefs as the sacred realm.  Within that set of core beliefs, there are often what Levi-Strauss called &quot;binary oppositions&quot; with one pole defined as &quot;Good&quot; (us) and the other as &quot;Evil&quot; (them).  

In Anthropology, one of the &quot;Evil&quot; symbols is that of the &quot;Spy&quot; and, in its original formulation (see the Boas quote), it is opposed to that of a &quot;Scientist&quot; (nowadays frequently a &quot;progressive activist&quot;).  If you want to look at another example, think about &quot;Communist&quot; and what that stood for as a symbol back when McCarthy was running his inquisition.

Personally, I don&#039;t think it is &quot;wrong&quot; for Anthropologists to work either for or against the various wars.  That is our duty as both citizens of our various countries and as human beings.  I do, however, think that it is &quot;wrong&quot; for a small group of people to decide what is and is not &quot;Truth&quot; and then try and impose that definition on the larger population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Just a couple of points.  First, I am a Canadian living in Canada and President Bush is definitely not &#8220;my leader&#8221; (that&#8217;s the Queen). Second, the post itself had nothing to do with whether or not I support either the war in Iraq or Afghanistan; it had to do with a social process &#8211; witch hunts &#8211; and how that process is playing out right now.</p>
<p>Let me return to your first question about the difference between a &#8220;witch&#8221; and a &#8220;criminal&#8221; since it is a really good one and gets to the heart about why witch hunts are so irrational. Most cultures have a split between the &#8220;sacred&#8221; and the &#8220;profane&#8221; (cf Durkheim or Mary Douglas).  As a general category, &#8220;criminals&#8221; commit actions that are in the &#8220;profane&#8221; (or &#8220;secular&#8221;) realm, while &#8220;witches&#8221; commit actions that are in the &#8220;sacred&#8221; realm.</p>
<p>Now, that split can be a bit tricky when you aren&#8217;t dealing with a religion, so the easiest way to look at it would be to ask &#8220;what does this group hold as their core beliefs&#8221; and treat those core beliefs as the sacred realm.  Within that set of core beliefs, there are often what Levi-Strauss called &#8220;binary oppositions&#8221; with one pole defined as &#8220;Good&#8221; (us) and the other as &#8220;Evil&#8221; (them).  </p>
<p>In Anthropology, one of the &#8220;Evil&#8221; symbols is that of the &#8220;Spy&#8221; and, in its original formulation (see the Boas quote), it is opposed to that of a &#8220;Scientist&#8221; (nowadays frequently a &#8220;progressive activist&#8221;).  If you want to look at another example, think about &#8220;Communist&#8221; and what that stood for as a symbol back when McCarthy was running his inquisition.</p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t think it is &#8220;wrong&#8221; for Anthropologists to work either for or against the various wars.  That is our duty as both citizens of our various countries and as human beings.  I do, however, think that it is &#8220;wrong&#8221; for a small group of people to decide what is and is not &#8220;Truth&#8221; and then try and impose that definition on the larger population.</p>
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