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	<title>Comments on: Some thoughts on why ethics are important</title>
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	<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/09/24/some-thoughts-on-why-ethics-are-important/</link>
	<description>Being in the main the musings of a Symbolic Anthropologist</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/09/24/some-thoughts-on-why-ethics-are-important/comment-page-1/#comment-1279</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=74#comment-1279</guid>
		<description>Hi Carl,

I think you are quite right about the group acting as a corrective to excessive individualism.  What bothers me about most of the discourse in general is that I find it too collectivist.  Let me give you an example:

If we look at the current discussions surrounding a bailout of the financial sector, there is a lot of talk about &quot;the government&quot; (a collective) saving the sector.  There is very little talk, outside of some very pointed remarks, about the CEOs and individuals who caused the financial meltdown.  I&#039;m certain that the FBI will come up with a few scapegoats, but, as with the Martha Stewart case, I doubt that you will see any really serious changes in the general process.

The flip side of individual ethics has to be individual responsibility, and that includes, or should include, individual CEOs and analysts, etc., having to pay back the bailout they are getting from Congress - at the minimum (otherwise there is no incentive not to fail).

At the same time, I would hope, although I doubt it will happen, that Congress will enact legislation that will produce greater guarantees for those they claim to represent.

I really don&#039;t have a problem with a collective acting as a structure for individual action; actually, I think it is quite necessary - a part of our biological heritage.  What I do have a problem with is when the collective is not &quot;sane&quot; - i.e. does not reflect the best wisdom and knowledge of the current perception of &quot;reality&quot; - and requires that individuals agree with it regardless of their own perceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carl,</p>
<p>I think you are quite right about the group acting as a corrective to excessive individualism.  What bothers me about most of the discourse in general is that I find it too collectivist.  Let me give you an example:</p>
<p>If we look at the current discussions surrounding a bailout of the financial sector, there is a lot of talk about &#8220;the government&#8221; (a collective) saving the sector.  There is very little talk, outside of some very pointed remarks, about the CEOs and individuals who caused the financial meltdown.  I&#8217;m certain that the FBI will come up with a few scapegoats, but, as with the Martha Stewart case, I doubt that you will see any really serious changes in the general process.</p>
<p>The flip side of individual ethics has to be individual responsibility, and that includes, or should include, individual CEOs and analysts, etc., having to pay back the bailout they are getting from Congress &#8211; at the minimum (otherwise there is no incentive not to fail).</p>
<p>At the same time, I would hope, although I doubt it will happen, that Congress will enact legislation that will produce greater guarantees for those they claim to represent.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t have a problem with a collective acting as a structure for individual action; actually, I think it is quite necessary &#8211; a part of our biological heritage.  What I do have a problem with is when the collective is not &#8220;sane&#8221; &#8211; i.e. does not reflect the best wisdom and knowledge of the current perception of &#8220;reality&#8221; &#8211; and requires that individuals agree with it regardless of their own perceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://marctyrrell.com/2008/09/24/some-thoughts-on-why-ethics-are-important/comment-page-1/#comment-1277</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marctyrrell.com/?p=74#comment-1277</guid>
		<description>This is all well-said and at a personal level I couldn&#039;t agree more. Yet the broader context is also interesting, since the U.S. economy is currently experiencing one of the periodic crises inherent in an individualistically-conceived and self-regulated free market, in which an accumulation of rationally small risks tips over into an emergent collective collapse.

The problem with individual ethics is that, like intelligence, foresight and vision, they cannot be guaranteed across the board; and the costs of their absence can extend well beyond the lacking party. So the temptation is to &#039;pool wisdom&#039;, so to speak, as Durkheim suggested with the idea of the conscience collective, and use it to regulate the worst excesses of individual depravity.

Of course the real self-regulating ubermenschen who are way above common sense will feel constrained by this enforced mediocrity. I&#039;m sure that&#039;s just what the guys at Bear, Stearns and AIG were thinking while they were dreaming up all those clever ways to turn bad debts into hot commodities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all well-said and at a personal level I couldn&#8217;t agree more. Yet the broader context is also interesting, since the U.S. economy is currently experiencing one of the periodic crises inherent in an individualistically-conceived and self-regulated free market, in which an accumulation of rationally small risks tips over into an emergent collective collapse.</p>
<p>The problem with individual ethics is that, like intelligence, foresight and vision, they cannot be guaranteed across the board; and the costs of their absence can extend well beyond the lacking party. So the temptation is to &#8216;pool wisdom&#8217;, so to speak, as Durkheim suggested with the idea of the conscience collective, and use it to regulate the worst excesses of individual depravity.</p>
<p>Of course the real self-regulating ubermenschen who are way above common sense will feel constrained by this enforced mediocrity. I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s just what the guys at Bear, Stearns and AIG were thinking while they were dreaming up all those clever ways to turn bad debts into hot commodities.</p>
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